[v6 General Discussion] Non-Public Domain and CCLI

In our church we are having discussions about non CCLI and copyright issues, especially at this time of the year with Christmas concerts etc. We use the Mission Praise hymn book here in the UK where most but not all use CCLI which allows us to display through EasyWorship and the photocopying of music as we have five licences which cover this. Some songs, in this hymn book do not and are also not public domain which I believe we cannot either display or copy unless we seek permission from the authors etc.

But where does this leave us with secular Christmas songs like White Christmas or Winter Wonderland which the church wishes to use?

Also I'm quite surprised that hymns like 'Come and Join the Celebration' cannot be projected or copied for a Christmas Service as they do not use the CCLI system. Does anyone know if this is indeed the case as I'm getting conflicting arguments from church officials and musicians, some say you can and others say you cannot.

Can anyone confirm this to be the case?
Many thanks

As a starter for you the CCLI have a list called 'Unauthorised Songs Lists – UK & Ireland'
These commonly misreported songs are not part of CCLI’s licence scheme in the UK &
Ireland and so cannot be copied or reproduced by any means under your CCLI licence(s).

It can be found at http://uk.ccli.com/pdfs/churches/UK-UA.pdf and is regularly updated.

So does that mean that the songs on this "Unauthorised" list cannot be used in public worship? Seems pretty pointless to have written them if they can't be used!!
Yes, that is my interpretation sdodman, unless you get permission from the authors you cannot reproduce by photocopying or projection if they are not in the CCLI system or Public Domain.

Thanks for that Dave the Keys, one particular song our Sunday School wants to sing in their Nativity play on Sunday is "Baby Jesus, We Love You" by Rhonda Frazier. I can't find any info about it other than what's on YouTube or whether it has a copyright on it. It's certainly not in any CCLI catalogues.

Thanks guys.
We obtained a licence to reproduce words for 'Come and join the Celebration' from Music Sales Ltd - very easy to do, well at least it was when we contacted them in 2004! Contact details:
Email: music@musicsales.co.uk

Another popular song not covered by CCCI is 'I The Lord of Sea and Sky' - a licence can be obtained from Calamus which cost us £5.88 also back in 2004. Contact details at the time: Oak House, 70 High St, Brandon, Suffolk, IP27 0AU. Tel: 01842 81932. We also have licences from them for 'Make Me a Channel of Your Peace' and 'O Lord Hear My Prayer' (Taize)

I'm sure a lot of songs not covered by CCLI slip the net - makes you realise how convenient the licencing scheme is compared to tracking down copyright holders individually!

Hope this helps

Thanks very much John for this very helpful info. I'm sure others will benefit from this too.
Blessings David
Baby Jesus, we love you by Rhonda Frazier is a tough one to track down.
It is published by Brentwood-Benson Music Publishing who are covered by the CCLI licence.
Personally I would use it and add it to your CCLI Online Reporting as a 'write in'.
I also note that various other songs by Rhonda Frazier are on the SongSelect site
so I'd definitely go for it !